Talk:Biochemical homeopathy

Comments taken from main page with corresponding subsequent discussion

Note: Contrary to the common understanding of regular "homeopathy", 'Abdu'l-Bahá did not advocate taking poisonous elements in highly diluted doses; on the contrary, He recommended prescribing foods to compensate for an inadequate amount of a healthy component:

Perhaps the term "Biochemical homeopathy" was chosen as similar to Electrohomeopathy, in that this approach also did not adhere to the law of similars and suggested value within plants, though the former does not presuppose any "electrical" or bio-energy value; 'Abdu'l-Bahá's examples such as "starch" and "sugar" are simply nutritional elements which modern medicine already does accept as needing to be in balance.

- User:Brettz9 (User:WikiSysop)

I completely agree that this statement has been widely misunderstood as a reference to classical homeopathy. Your idea that it may relate to "electrohomeopathy" is interesting, but I think 'Abdu'l-Bahá was probably asked by a German friend who was a follower of "Biochemische Homöpathie" or the "biochemic tissue salt" approach developed by the German physician Dr. Schüßler (sometimes spelled Schuessler). His concept seems to be very close to what 'Abdu'l-Bahá states in Some Answered Questions and elsewhere, namely that disease stems from an imbalance in the body's components and you have to re-establish the balance. This should be possible mainly with certain types of food according to 'Abdu'l-Bahá, whereas Schüßler claimed that it could be done with a combination of his 12 (or in the advanced form of his concept 27) salts. More on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Heinrich_Schüßler and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemic_tissue_salt

(unknown)

This is great! If ok, I think we should move your comments into the main page in the relevant section. Normally Bahai9 tries to avoid speculation, but I'm ok with this discussion if we make clear they are not authoritative (I should have done a better job of this with my original comments). Actually, what we probably should do instead is move this discussion over to Bahaipedia and add a link here mentioning that there is an article there. Have any interest in adding such a page over there to this effect?

WikiSysop 04:44, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

In order to shed more light on the above quotations from Shoghi Effendi, UHJ clarification, and Abdu'l Baha's injunction, one needs to equally ponder on the following:

1) Did Shoghi Effendi not know what is Biochemical homeopathy and responded to a question without the knowledge of the question? User:Shahram

I don't think that is possible. He said he was not an expert in some subjects, but the Writings say it was for him to limit the sphere of his infallibility. The House says they may be in need of more information. WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

2) Did he respond only to the part of the question referring to food medicine or is he confriming Biochemical homeopathy in general? User:Shahram

It seems possible, I suppose, though it would appear to be flouting normal maxims of discourse. WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

3) Unfortunately there is a common misconception in today's "scientific" community that homeopathy is using poisonous elements in highly diluted doses. Homeopathic remedies are equally made of salts (Natrum Muriaticum), Sugar (Saccharum officinalis), all other forms of salts and every single mineral on the periodic table which are also the basic constituent of our body such as Calcarea (Calcium), Magnesia, Kalium (Potassium), Boron, Lithium, carbon, Nitrogen, Manganum (Manganese) Cuprum (copper), Zincum, Niccolum, Ferrum (Iron)... and all their various salts : (carbonica, sulphurica, muriaticum, slicatum, iodatum, phosphoricum,...). There are over a thousand different minerals and elements used in homeopathic pharmacopoeia, not just the poisonous ones. User:Shahram

I guess you mean a misconception that homeopathy is only using poisonous elements in highly diluted doses. Otherwise it would not be a misconception. Is it a misconception that homeopathy only calls for them in highly diluted doses? WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

4) A very common and popular form of homeopathy at the time of Shoghi Effendi was the use of "Schuessler’s Tissue Salts " which are still known as biochemic or cell salts. These Tissue Salts are potentised micro-doses of the 12 essential minerals Schuessler believed the body needs to repair and maintain itself.  They are prepared in homeopathic 6X potencies (one part per million). These salts include: Calcium fluoride (Calc fluor: Component of: Skin, connective tissue, tooth enamel, joints and bones.) Calcium Phosphate (Calc Phos: All body tissues, especially teeth and bones.Calcium Sulphate (Calc Sulph: component of Gall bladder (bile) and liver), Ferrum Phosphate (Ferr-Phos: All parts of the body, especially red blood cells), Pottasium Chloride (Kali Mur:All parts of the body, especially connective tissue), Potassium Phosphate (Kai Phos: Brain and nerves, muscles, blood, body fluids) Pottasium sulphate (Kali Sulph: Skin, muscles), Magnesium phosphate (Mag Phos: Muscles, blood cells, nervous tissue, bones, teeth) Sodium Chloride (Nat Mur: All body fluids and tissues), Sodium Phosphate (Nat Phos: Blood cells, muscles, nerve and brain cells, body fluids.), Sodium Sulphate (Nat Sulph: Extracellular fluid.), Silice (Silica: Skin, hair, nails, muscles, nerves, glands, connective tissue). The use of Biochemical Homeopathy specifically refers to the use of the Biochemical salts in homeopathy. User:Shahram

Interesting... Any studies on such? WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

5) Beside salt and sugar, many of the common foods are an integral part of the practice of Homeopathic Medicine: Lycopersicum (tomato), Solanum tuberosum (Potato), Capsicum (Jalapeno Pepper)... every single food is used in the preparation of homeopathic remedies: eggplant, apple, walnut, apricot, almond, (almost all nuts and seeds, wheat, rye, celery, carrot, turnips, parsnips, chocolate, milk, Papaya, Mango,...

6) Homeopathic remedies are also made from various commonly used herbs and spices : Nut Meg ( Nux Moschata), Cinnamon, Anise, parsley, coriander, blaclk pepper, chilli pepper,... User:Shahram

Are the above in diluted amounts or ? WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

7) The poisonous elements used in homeopathy were also a direct response to the use of highly poisonous substances by the conventional medicine at that time. As conventional Doctors did not have much arsenal in their therapeutic chest, they would commonly use salts of Mercury, Arsenic, Gold, Sulphur, Phosphate, iodine,.. Homeopaths have really fast realised that many of the symptoms of the patients are directly caused by the use of these toxic substances and would recognise the "disorder" of the patient as an imbalance caused by these toxic elements so they would use micro-potentised salts of the same toxic elements to alleviate the chronic ill effects of these medicinal drugs of the time. Also most of the population was exposed to toxic effects of lead and aluminum and other metals used in cooking and these substances entered the homeopathic Materia Medica to counteract the imbalances caused by these toxicity. User:Shahram

Just because homeopaths were using diluted poisons in response to other poisons does not mean that dilution had any effect. Are there peer-reviewed studies that recognize any benefit? WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Therefore it is critical for us as physicians to not to reduce Abdu-Baha's examples of excess and deficiencies of salts and sugar as pointing to only "nutritional imbalances" but any imbalanced caused by any substance. User:Shahram

That would stand to reason, but again, does it not seem that 'Abdu'l-Baha's idea was that the remedy must be to add diminished substances and reduce harmful substances thereby suggesting, if anything, that poisons should be leached out rather than adding in dilute amounts? In any case, I'm planning to reword the original page so it doesn't slant the interpretation against the poison-based homeopathic approach in case 'Abdu'l-Baha's supplementation approach might not be interpreted as exclusive to some role for the poison-based homeopathic one (though from what I am aware, it doesn't seem the evidence supports this). As I should have better modeled, the contents of Bahai9 should be readily verifiable from the words themselves and agreeable to any reasonable friends, and also almost exclusively limited to the quotes and their headings, so I must apologize for my bad example here. :-) It's not that I have any problem with the discussion but just want to manage things before too many points of view get introjected that cannot be agreed upon by the text. If you'd like your helpful background information put to use on a normal non-talk page (and I hope you would), I suggest starting a page on homeopathy at http://bahaipedia.org along with any citable sources for your information and linking to the page from any medical pages they may have, as I think that should be of great interest. I can then cross-link our page here to that page, but Bahai9 is meant to be limited to scriptures and closely derivative, verifiable, and more consensus-able works like Lights of Guidance headings and study outlines. Thanks so much for your contributions!!!! WikiSysop (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2017 (UTC)